Curse

LSX · Jan 16, 2010, 03:22 PM // 15:22

well you cant really say they are all bad. Pugs groups can go 3 ways: Great, frustrating but gets the job done, just fail. Were all pugs one way or another. Some just needs to learn. if a warrior doesnt want to die the monk should always keep him alive. they just need to learn that its a team game and one supports another or gw can just be a solo game. I admit i hate pug groups and i only run with my guild most of the time cause i dont like to fail, but when i really need something done and i run with a pug i need to make sure that he has to have my build or i just kick. ^.^

Good experience: The zmission for yesterday arborstone. Pugs listened to me and look the left way instead of the middle in hardmode and we got it done in 16 mins.

Bad experience: the UW balanced we took an alliance member, and he took the quest in waste when everyone was position correctly. but he didnt admit that he took the quest. It gets a little frustrating at first, but once everyone learns the correct way to do things everything goes smooth and nice. He eventually learned underworld and he liked how it went.

were all pugs in some way. People just need a learning experience.

drkn · Jan 16, 2010, 03:52 PM // 15:52

i never pug outside of dsc. it's just inferior to playing with henchmen alone, not to mention heroes.
in dsc though, a decent pug is comparable to an allied team. and it's usually faster to gather one.

Risus · Jan 16, 2010, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highlander Of Alba

This is really a two edge sword.

I when on one of my other accounts will take a few newer guys along on a mission or whatever.

Reason is, how will they ever learn...They will get some guidence along the way during and point out if there crossing the line ect.

Why do I do this? Lets look at it this way.

How good were You when you started ?? Oh yea you could clear everything.... bull***.

You are a long term player who knows what to do and what build to play.

So next time your out there give a thought and think a little /

What did I do wrong when I was a new player and add a litttle help if you think they need it.

Yes Some think they are a Ninja or rush to agro what they can see they only do that cause they have not been given a little help along the way

No actually I was pretty damn good when I started, you see, because, I have something that most idiot 12 year old PUGs don't. Common sense and a good gaming mind. I can find synergy in skills. I can kind of tell that it saves time to not plow through every red dot you see. I can tell that if I never get attacked, I don't need a bar with 8 tanking/healing skills. I can tell when my bar isn't great, and I can tell when I have a good bar.

New PUG exp: Ok so I was really the PUG on this one, the E/Mo for dayway was spamming GLF ____ | EXP ONLY | FAILER PAYS CONS. So I join. Turns out, when I'm m2, they have no idea what they are doing and the E/Mo is scared to tank 2 aatxe and dies when he tries. His guildie the EoE was also completely clueless and couldn't seem to figure out that he needed to lay down EoE on some parts. As M2, I clear vale, pop the reaper b/c the 2 noobs died, res them, go off to do Escort. Lo and behold, the party wipes in about 5 mins. Reason? Vale team failed on Wrathful Spirits. Then they start raging us saying how I sucked b/c I didn't do something and how we all failed then they ragequit. HATE. HATE. HATE. Now I only go with trusted guilds

Essence Snow · Jan 16, 2010, 04:16 PM // 16:16

I actually like pugs.....have meet most of the ppl I enjoy playing with via pug groups. Even though most of the time pugs remain pugs the random occurance of good groups and new ppl to play with, that otherwise would remain obscure>h/h imo.

chaosincarnate87 · Jan 16, 2010, 04:19 PM // 16:19

I like pugs, and I think a lot more people would too if they'd take the time to weed out the terrible players before you start a mission or what have you.. although all the pugg'ing i do is in alliance... so its people i really don't mind helping either, even if they aren't that good.

example of good group: I was doing aurora glade the other day in hm, there was absolutely no arguement over builds, heroes, or anything. the group was just about automatically sync'd aside from a couple minor skill changes which people were more than happy to make.

bad group: last eldrich ettin zb a guildie and i were leading a full guild group, no one could keep up, and we had 4 warriors and a derv in the group... sad... and on top of that it was completed by myself as the roj and another guildie who brought a spirt spammer... good thing at least 2 of us were prepared..

Eragon Zarroc · Jan 16, 2010, 04:33 PM // 16:33

hate em

lack of communication and general experience

fail

gremlin · Jan 16, 2010, 04:44 PM // 16:44

We the players effectively destroyed pugs by our attitude to them.
Pugs are just people and I have had good and bad experiences with them.

But once the builds became more standardised mainly by places like guildwiki defining what build was good for what area then the writing was on the wall for general cooperative pve.

loads of inexperienced players refused to talk through a mission while those that started parties became adamant as to what build must be used and what equipment must be carried.
For 80% of pve it doesn't really matter what the party configuration and build you have as long as your not totally retarded you will win through.

Players being in a hurry to complete a mission and being darn rude to each other "not uncommon in gw" means everyone now plays with a guild or with heroes and its too late to change it now.

Hope gw2 fares better.

asb · Jan 16, 2010, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Same here: it's a double edged sword, it entirely depends on the people you get thrown together with.
good example: tahnnakai temple hm
one monk was the leader and knew the mission inside out, and although the wammo insisted on taking the right path at the bound zojun arena which got us almost wiped, we otherwise had no problems whatsoever.

bad example: rocktail zb hm
6 of 8 party members running towards rocktail, convinced that the can get close to him before he uses his artillery attack. they were wrong and died, three of them immediately quit and the rest of us needed to start over.

Hell Risen · Jan 16, 2010, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Hate>love esp. When I pug dayway. Some pugs are decent, some are first timers, some don't listen, and some just plain suck. What annoys me the most is not the fact I have to cover other player's areas if they die, it's the fact that first timers/less experienced players don't listen to you when your trying to give them advice and they ignore it completely,end up failing and leaving/not paying for cons.

Quaker · Jan 16, 2010, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

But once the builds became more standardised mainly by places like guildwiki ..... those that started parties became adamant as to what build must be used and what equipment must be carried.
For 80% of pve it doesn't really matter what the party configuration and build you have as long as your not totally retarded you will win through.

Players being in a hurry to complete a mission and being darn rude to each other "'......

QFT!

Overall, my experiences with PUGs have been generally good. But then again, I'm one of those people, like Gremlin, who realize that 90% of PvE, even in hard mode, can be done with almost any party as long as not too many players are inexperienced.

A lot of the people who complain about PUGs are those same people who insist that everyone must have specific builds or weapons. They also usually fail to realize that there is almost always more than one way to do any quest/mission/dungeon - and the way they do it isn't always necessarily the best.

In fact, one of the interesting things about PUGs is seeing the different approaches people take do getting something done.

Most of the really bad experiences I've had with PUGs are the ones where some dickwad wants to micro-manage everyone's builds or constantly rants at everyone calling them noobs because they don't do what the dickwad wants or expects, or goes off by themselves to do it "the right way", etc., etc.

Jeez folks, it's just a game! Relax and have some fun now and then.

PuGs yes!

Zehnchu · Jan 16, 2010, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Before titles and PvE only skills pugs where a lot a fun and friendly and easy to find.

After titles and PvE only skills....worthless whiners title/skill discrimination death spiral into toilet hate.

Cuilan · Jan 16, 2010, 06:35 PM // 18:35

The great majority of pugs I've been in are fine and sometimes great. I can't give up pugging because that's how I've met so many great players and people who freely share their knowledge. H/H is hard for me because I'm too annoyed often by their retarded AI and the fact that I'm alone. Generally I try harder...or actually try to play my all with people. I make mistakes often, but that's because I'm human.

I've played with people who don't pug often and they're really not all that great. Maybe H/H'er do so because they don't like being caught messing up.

scratchdude · Jan 16, 2010, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Love, but just on ZM or ZB : most of my experiences with PUGS turned out pretty well on zaishen dailies. It seems you can find good players only during these.

Otherwise I don't even bother trying to find a PUG when it's not a daily, guild grouping is much better.

SithLord2064 · Jan 16, 2010, 06:50 PM // 18:50

PuGs are a double edged sword, in my opinion. There are some really good ones, and there are some ludicrously bad ones. What I normally do is ask PuGs to ping their skill bar. If they don't, I ask one more time, then kick if they don't. I also kick rude and impatient people. This seems to solve most of the problems I have with PuGs. That doesn't mean I don't have bad experiences any more, but it seems to limit them.

As for examples, I had a great experience with a pair of new players I helped do the first three missions in Prophecies. These two were very receptive to my criticisms, willing to listen and, most importantly, they asked questions (mostly noob questions) when they didn't know what to do. It was a satisfying experience.

I had a terrible experience, tho, with a PuG that I added when I was doing Rihlon Refuge in Nightfall. All I asked of this PuG was to bring 2 skills, that's all. Winter and Pain Inverter. Just that. Imagine my surprise when I noticed the Droughtlings were completely devestating our party and Winter was nowhere to be seen. When asked, the PuG said "I didn't bring it. I didn't think it was that important." I think I invented several new swear words when I read this. It took us THREE restarts before the brain-dead moron finally brought Winter. But, not surprisingly, it took us FOREVER to kill The Drought, because the ignorant moron forgot to bring Pain Inverter. Ugh.

Tullzinski · Jan 16, 2010, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Thunderhead Keep killed PUG for me a long time ago. Hench from that point on.

YunSooJin · Jan 16, 2010, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc

hate em

lack of communication and general experience

fail

/winnar

12charswut

Zahr Dalsk · Jan 16, 2010, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

We the players effectively destroyed pugs by our attitude to them.

No, PUGs destroyed themselves.

- run bad builds
- refuse to optimize and min/max, for two reasons
- - one, they think their build is actually good due to mentalities imprinted from games like WoW or even their fellow PUGgers
- - two, they're doing a "roleplaying" or "flavour" based build, which is always bad, especially since this is not an RPG
- immature attitude and communication
- class discrimination
- - and also title rank discrimination in much of PvP (HA, GvG) and some types of PvE (Ursan)
- being inherently less convenient than H/H
- - taking breaks is more difficult
- - important real-life surprises even more so
- - plus my tendency to tab to Firefox or TF2 and forget I was playing GW
- requiring drastically more setup time than H/H
- being annoying
- - particularly the e-peen strokers
- - and the /b/tards
- and also a matter of principal, whereby we intentionally sabotage PUGs after we witnessed their hateful (and successful) attempts to dissuade Anet from making seven hero parties
- - typically done by overaggroing at dangerous points or during a near wipe recovery, or when playing a key role in the party, neglecting that role

Orry · Jan 16, 2010, 11:11 PM // 23:11

If people realised that the majority of PvE is a face-roll they wouldn't have a horrible time with PuGs, that being said I won't PuG while I am on any character going for Survivor, and I tend to stick to alliance/friend groups when doing elite areas.

I hvae however met some very nice people in PuGs, I met a rather nice person doing The Last Day Dawns, which isn't that easy of a quest.

Later she asked me to come do Glint's Challenge with what was mostly a PuG, that succeeded too.

Go into PuGs and give them advice early on, it will improve their skill later.

Also, "The Lich has to be standing on top of the Bloodstone when you kill him! Wait for him to move there." -hundreds of PuGs(grammar and spelling corrected by Orry)

glacialphoenix · Jan 16, 2010, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orry

Also, "The Lich has to be standing on top of the Bloodstone when you kill him! Wait for him to move there." -hundreds of PuGs

Well, given Rurik's cinematic dialogue... I'd say that's an understandable error.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Rurik

"Kill the Lich while he stands atop the Bloodstone inside the caldera."

(yay wiki for easy dialogue reference.)

Orry · Jan 16, 2010, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by glacialphoenix

Well, given Rurik's cinematic dialogue... I'd say that's an understandable error.

(yay wiki for easy dialogue reference.)

I know it is understandable, that's why I chose it as a reference, although it is fun killing him out in the lava and have them all amazed whe it works.